that is completely also a good deal,i.e.some trainers say to leave the room momentarily if it is indoors.

i guess energetically it is exactly the same, a momentary “absence of rewards”, where the reward is “time with mom” ….

i do not have any problems with my dogs biting unless i try to clip nails of my border collie. she is awfully defensive about that ! it is not easy to clip a nail while wearing a tough glove….ha yes i do not talk often about problems with my dogs, this one is a real problem !

I guess I am sounding really focused on biting, it actually seems like a normal thing that he is doing, it is not excessive, I just struggle with what to do in those moments to keep the “energy flowing with what Kevin calls the ‘group’, vs. entering a struggle with the dog” is the best way to put it. I have spoken with other Newfoundland owners (and watched a lot of youtube Newf videos!), and he is certainly just being a Newfoundland puppy. There was a time when he was about 6 months when he would get overstimulated/confused and jump and grab, and I was trying the more confrontational techniques to stop that…it didn’t take long at all to realize that those old wives’ tale suggestions were not appropriate or effective – that’s when I discovered NDT and got some real insight into that issue. That’s not really happening anymore, it doesn’t seem like overload, at least to me, he is completely engaged with me, just hanging onto me sometimes. The couch day was different – really he shouldn’t have the freedom yet because he is not trained and it is inviting a struggle. I am hoping Kevin’s “dogs in their place” article gives some direction too.

I couldn’t give him a time-out if I wanted to, but if he gets too rough saying ‘ow’ and removing myself behind a gate for a moment, not being mad but just matter-of-fact, seems like appropriate feedback. I am probably wrong, though, because it seems like whatever my intuition says, it is the opposite that is the right thing to do.

My den cannot also be my prison cell.

That’s what traditional learning theory says, but I think that the idea of a “time out” is lost on a dog. You can send a child to their room to think about what they’ve done because they have a sense of past and future. “Time out” is a pretty abstract concept: the idea that being sent to a certain place = punishment requires one to understand that a)their actions were wrong b)the place they’ve been sent to is a consequence of their actions. I don’t think that dogs can understand either of those ideas. If you were to send a dog to time out for mouthing, i think that the only lesson she’s learning is that she can’t interact with her handler in those moments where she’s in drive. Also, the unresolved drive to make contact turns into stress.

Heather, have you considered getting a bite sleeve as an intermediate step to channeling his bite into a tug toy?

He is a great dog, sometimes I think that gets lost in the ruminating I do about things I find unexpected or challenging.

..i used to think dogs do not really like doing certain stuff, they only do it because they want me to give them food and be nice to them…excited about them…not sure any more about that.

..so I try not to coerce them all that much…
on the other hand they seem to begin to like stuff if it becomes a regular routine

even if they were merely flummoxed by it in the beginning…

some trainers think that if a dog commences unwanted behaviour, i.e.barking or in your case, biting your arm so that you get bruises… it is ok to put him in the crate for a time-out, without saying anything. each time he offers this behaviour. this seems to signal to the dog, that this behaviour will not lead to more “mom” time and could extinguish it…