Adam asks: “Also, is eye contact from the object of attraction onto the dog, required for this phenomenon of emotional projection?”
It’s not required as a two way deal, but the dog fixates on the eyes of what it’s attracted to because this gives it direct and instant access to its own body’s physical center of gravity as a tightly focused single point, thus, the “signal” it picks up from the object of attraction is more fine-tuned and the motor skills triggered as a means of responding to it are heightened and refined as well. Now, were the dog to become the object-of-its-attention, it might lose its focus on the other beings’ center mass and so its past emotional history will be imposed on what it’s attracted to and it will lose access to refined motor skills. The resistance of the thing will be at the forefront of its perception rather than the fluidity of its motion and it may end up feeling “accelerated” out of its body (and if it’s not in its body it’s OUT OF ITS MIND).
But, if it can still feel the preyful essence of what it is attracted to and retain awareness of its center mass it is thus able to attune its movements in syncopation with what it is attracted to. This formula can account for all interactions between any two individuals. For example, if the other being acts like prey, then the dog acts like predator and it will have the means of taking it down at high speed and “anticipating” where it is going to be next. At a certain rate of intensity however the dog as predator goes into “missile lock” (breeches emotional capacity) and fixates on a loci of its body as the take down point of maximum leverage. But if the other being is capable of reflecting projected energy back onto the “projector” (in other words act like a predator) because its emotional capacity is high enough, and if the projector as object-of-its-attention can still feel preyful essence because its emotional capacity is high enough, then the emotion elaborates into a sensual feeling and ultimately into sociability. THIS IS DRIVE, i.e. the distinction between prey drive (can fluidly shift from one loci to another) and prey instinct (stays rigidly fixated on one take down loci). In Drive it feels its own p-cog’s movement when object moves as something pleasurable because the center mass of the thing in real time is still part of its impression and is rendering a sense of fluid movement. Hope this isn’t too dense but it really is quite simple, it just becomes infinitely complex because one thing is constantly reflecting against another thing and thereby elaborating into increasing levels of complexity.
The link below demonstrates that the phemonenon of emotional projection and the principle of emotional conductivity is the universal operating system of animal consciousness and in this example, how the predatory aspect of the duck is reflecting the dog’s projection of energy back onto the dog, with the intensity of the duck accelerating the dog’s nervous system so that the dog barks in order to dump the energy it is unable to “digest.” The dog doesn’t have access to fine motor skills and is feeling pushed on, and so it backs up to reduce the sensations of pressure. It’s unable to flip polarity. Nevertheless, the intensity is also triggering deep physical memories of litter experiences so the dog is experiencing the moment as if it is being chased by its littermate (hence the barking is metered) and so its frame of reference remains social, but for now overloaded (the bark is being focused in the head). Still, the reality is that the dog’s attraction to the duck will be increased and let’s hope its emotional capacity increases along with that as well. Meanwhile the duck is chasing the dog’s eyes as access channel to its “beak” since the form of dog triggers physical memories of its mama. And let’s hope the emotional capacity of the duck increases as well so it can continue to reflect energy back to the dog as the dog gets more confident. If the principle of emotional conductivity increases both animals emotional capacity, then subsequent video might show dog and duck sleeping together on dog bed!
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/05/20/baby-duck-defeats-puppy.aspx
My advice to baby duck: Keep On Pushing!
Just to clarify…so if a wolf or dog is hunting a prey animal…it needs to locate the eyes in order to gain access to the animal’s center mass and therefore proceed in the chase and take down?
Also, why does a metered bark imply chased by litter mates or sociality?
A bark that is metered is repeating itself without a loss of energy, and therefore it is social. In my model, complex behavior that repeats itself is the essence of sociability. So I believe that this is recapitulating via the dog’s physical memory the energetic signature of its litter mates. So the interaction between the dog and the duck is a peer-to-peer kind of relationship which is why the dog isn’t escalating out of control and going on to hurt the duck, it’s staying in a coherent frame of mind because the physical memory of litter mates is keeping it grounded. If the dog’s bark was rising in pitch and frequency, it would be accelerating out of its body and hence out of its mind, and at some point the intensity value would breech its emotional capacity and the duck would be typed as prey animal since its predatory aspect is so small. In this way the emotional battery is like a wetlands is to a watershed, supplying memories of flow in order to glide over gaps in consciousness, and this is in service to the network’s agenda for always coding for sociability. Thus I predict subsequent video will show dog and duck sleeping on the duck’s bed.
Initially yes which is why it is presumed that practice is necessary for hunting, and why play is mainly about practice for hunting, neither of which are fundamentally accurate statements although nevertheless there is a seed of truth within them. The eyes as “the negative” of a Being electrify the organism, the body as “the positive” of a Being is a dull, amorphous void that draws the organism toward it, and so I believe that these spikes of intensity relative to the dull, unshaped pull of attraction ultimately averages out to an apprehension of the things center mass because as the predator is mastering the mechanics of locomotion in its own development, it is actually being embedded with an on/board calculus of motion which will be applied to objects of resistance. With this calculus embedded in its anatomy, muscle mechanics and ultimately serviced by its neurology, therefore, with center mass divined by projecting physical center-of-gravity and physical memory attached onto the form of a complex object of resistance, the precise point as to where to apply leverage becomes available to the predator (especially one that evolved to hunt by feel because it is physically inferior to its main prey.) I should also mention that this evolved from the more rudimentary level of predator hunting small prey that can escape to cover or especially down a hole. The hole is the negative, the prey’s body is the positive, and when the prey gets beyond the midpoint, i.e. too far from its hole, the predator’s focused energy can now find release and it makes a strike for the prey.
But I always saw the bark as a release of tension, helping to maintaining equilibrium…how can a bark not be a loss of energy?
A deep metered bark is self-sustaining because the dog’s impression is that it is ingesting something while it is simultaneously expressing energy. So while yes there is some physical fatigue, emotionally, it is reinforcing itself, and the dog recognizes this by experiencing a state of emotional suspension. In other words, it has projected its p-cog into object of attraction and has let go and therefore whatever the object of attraction does, even if it stands still, nevertheless feels energizing. One police dog I trained to hold and bark, captured a criminal and held him by barking for 20 minutes until the handler could scale the ledges to make the arrest. In that mode, everything about the situation felt energizing to the dog. Whereas if the dog was screaming with a high pitched continuous vocal pattern, he would have been losing energy and sooner or later the attraction would have collapsed into a bite or an avoidance response. The lack of stimulation and feedback from the environment would have been reflecting the loss of energy to the dog and that would have put it into a state of conflict. But when it completely projected into the criminal, even inaction felt like potential energy and this sustained the feeling of attraction and at the highest amplitude.
Wow this is hard to wrap your mind around. I’ve been trying to put myself in the dog’s shoes, barking at the duckling. When you say “ingesting something,” this is the exhilerating experience of being chased by his litter mates. And he barks in a consistent manner to MAINTAIN the pleasurable experience, because were he not to he would accelerate into an instinct. So if this was to be put into some sort of mathematical terms. Let’s say the duck represents an intensity of “3,” equal to the intensity of a litter mate chasing him. 3 feels good, but if he doesn’t bark, then it will escalate to a number that may trigger memories of falling. Ahhh so while the bark is preventing an overload, it is more importantly a recapitulation of pleasure, because he’s not trying to rid his body of toxic energy, but is instead simply trying to CONTINUE the pleasure of the experience. He’s trying to experience it again and again, re-creation of pleasure. Probably just repeating what you’re saying here, but this feels like a moment of clarity. Am I understanding you?
Right, so in the deep metered bark there is an intake of air that is equal to output of bark, one can hear the dog gulping in, (pulling in the attraction) whereas in high pitched barking the dog is pushing out more air than sucking in so he’s feeling more and more intense. There’s more to say about it than this as it actually squares up with the propagation of a wave, but biochemically the intake of air can be intoxicating. I worked with a severe case of dog chasing its tail and the moment of suspension it got from twirling in a tight circle, and the breathing in, began to get him high, literally intoxicated. He had become addicted to the wooziness of the state induced by circling into a smaller and smaller orbit and sucking in great gasps of air. Getting high on air intake also happens with horses when they crib on fence and stall rails, but my point here is that “feeding” the bark with strong gulp of air is reinforcing via pleasure chemicals as opposed to pushing out energy through hectic barking which leaves the dog enervated.
So the dog is feeling connected to the duckling as if it’s a litter mate and the metered barking is helping him to sustain the feeling of connection because it is a pure wave function. He’s feeling a pull to the duckling even though the duckling is chasing him, and this is clear to see in the magnetic-like alignment of his body relative to the duckling. He could just run away in a straight line, but he’s “running away” along a circle because he feels a pull toward the duckling.
I should add that that specific blend of push and pull is the physical memory of its litter mate, it is the feeling it has for a litter mate. Also note that the pup is mirroring the duckling because of that auto-tuning/feedback loop being engaged, whereas the duck is acting instinctively and just going straight at the dog. If the duck is able to absorb the dog’s energy and also reflect it back, then the two could elaborate into a more complex relationship akin to dog to dog. But that is not going to happen much beyond a rudimentary level. What is going to assist the duckling in this regard however is whatever crazy stuff the caring people will do for it, in other words, they are going to artificially increase the duck’s emotional capacity by creating a supportive environment.
I am left in awe at you magical ability to project your thoughts and read the mind of a duck.
So you don’t agree with Lorenz’ interpretation of gosling’s behavior after being imprinted?
Lorenz was descriptive. You are projecting your thoughts into the duck and dog.
You have it in reverse. I am saying that duckling is attracted to dog, and dog is attracted to duckling. The nature of their respective behaviors then reveals the nature of their mutual attraction. Anything else is magical thinking. For example, the term dominance instinct is an oxymoron, the coupling of an instinct with a thought. The more “modern” term of resource guarding/husbanding is likewise the projection of a thought onto a behavior. Lorenz was saying that the gosling imprinted on him as if he was its mother, and this is a valid description even though it doesn’t explicate what’s going on in the imprinting process.
It’s simple, stop pretending you know what is going on in the mind of these animals. The fallacy of extraordinary knowledge by you can’t be hidden by your strange choice of words. Misrepresenting the concept of dominance may fool the credulant. Those familiar with the concept know that it is not an oxymoron.
This is what Lee is talking about. Just say something specific rather than making condemning statements. I get it that you don’t agree. My knowledge isn’t extraordinary, it’s a mere exercise in logic. If you could repeat the argument you would be in a position to argue. Otherwise take a specific position on why the duckling is chasing the dog and the dog is barking at the duckling and we can then hold it up to scrutiny to see if it makes sense.
Ummm…PowerRanger, I believe the word you were searching for is CREDULOUS not credulant. Just sayin…
I am using the word credulant and not credulous to emphasize the similarities between NDT and religious beliefs and other believers of woo.
The most similar word I found to credulant, as it relates to this discussion and to our pets, is possibly, Petulant:
Petulant: sulky, crabby, peevish, grumpy, sullen, moody, cantankerous, huffy, snappish, irritable, grouchy, ill-tempered, touchy, testy, querulous, snappy, bad-tempered
Just sayin’……
As a musician, I’m interested in the term “metered” when referencing barking; it makes sense that an even distribution of energy/sound creates a measurable wave and indicates a controlled and intended effect.
Credulous is in the dictionary…credulant is not…at least, not any dictionaries I can lay my hands on; again, just saying…
Power Ranger’s latest post raises some legitimate questions, but I’ve taken the liberty of editing out his charming Jane-You-Ignorant-Slut manner of positing them.
PR: Kevin, isn’t it disingenuous of you to claim the dog-must-always-win-the-tug technique when Schutzhund trainers have been doing it since “before you were born?”
KB: I was profoundly influenced by the Schutzhund movement in the seventies as I have often said and published in both my books, but if I’m not mistaken no other trainer then developed a training method for family dogs incorporating that technique. In fact, the science on dogs and learning was preaching the exact opposite. I also never said I invented the age old game of Hide ‘n Seek ala Search and Rescue training either, but again this became part of my foundation approach to raising puppies for the family dog market. I think I was also the first to do the 2nd helper 180 degree reverse technique to train for the Call Off in American Police Canine Certification (Norwalk, CT. Police Dept. 1984). These techniques naturally follow from a philosophy, model and methodology and this is why the scientific orthodoxy is always moving toward the Natural Dog Training direction. (You may have noticed the building recognition in the veterinary community over the last few years about the behavioral and constitutional drawbacks to neutering.) There are also dozens of NDT techniques I invented from whole cloth so stay tuned.
PR: Kevin, how can you say that the “dominance instinct” is an oxymoron?
KB: In order for there to be a “dominance instinct,” an individual must be able to think about the concept of status, the concept of a hierarchy of relative statuses, its position of status relative to other individuals within such a hierarchy, and then the consequences and costs and benefits of trying to increase or decrease its personal status relative to other individuals. This requires thinking. And if an instinct requires thinking, then what is it, an instinct or a thought? Of course it can’t be either because it is what it is, an oxymoron.
PR: Kevin, Dr. Bradshaw is refreshingly candid when he admits to something that he does not know, but you and Lee Kelley lose your credibility “among thinking people” when you claim you can explain everything.
KB: Yes Dr. Bradshaw is refreshingly candid. On the other hand, I have more experience with dogs and I’m working with the benefit of a model. The purpose of my books and this website is to articulate what I know. What I know I state with conviction. The way I sum up the state of my knowledge is that the more I know, the more I know I don’t know. That’s why I Keep On Pushing!
You are a treasure, Kevin Behan…so glad you “Keep On Pushing”! ♥
I suspect Power Ranger is a troubled adolescent and further interaction with him/her is bootless.
@ Cliff that would be a good idea if troubled adolescents did not grow up to be…IMF bosses and other closet deviants that suck on us lowly tax payers and find it well within their conscience to accept out-of-proportion compensation for the crap they deliver to the rest of the world…in other words they entertain us with their continued troubled adolescent and damaging behaviour well into their 70s.
i can confirm an instance of the “attraction” play bark, deep and sonorous, which my large dog emits when he tries to get close to the cats. (he hardly ever barks other than when he is trying to get close to the cats) the cats do not particularly like him and they swat at his face from an elevated position
he is not discouraged, very much intrigued by them and wants to be close.
when i recently travelled with this dog and one of the cats in my vehicle, it was inclement weather and I was able to configure them both together so they were sleeping and keeping each other warm during the day long journey.
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